special guest post by SDR3939
[Editor's note: this came to us in the comments section of The Duck Stops Here's recent post "On PAC-12 media day, the Ducks should come clean." We are always open to opposing viewpoints, provided they are offered in a reasonable, thoughtful manner, and this was. The writer identifies himself as a former Division I strength coach.]
Couple of issues to think of... first, Lyles was not paid by Oregon when LaMichael James was recruited. Like many of the media members you scold, you fell into that trap. James' recruitment is not, and should not, be an issue regarding Lyles. At the time, Lyles worked for a different scouting service. His help with James does not qualify in this debate.Second, there are 2 problems with even talking about vacating anything... IF it is found that Oregon violated bylaw 13.14.3 Recruiting or Scouting Services, then there is a very applicable part of this rule at the end of the bylaw which reads: 18.104.22.168 Effect of Violation. Violations of Bylaw 13.14.3 and its subsections shall be considered institutional violations per Constitution 2.8.1; however, such violations shall not affect the prospective student-athlete’s eligibility... therefor, no player(s) will be ruled ineligible, hence no vacating of wins. Second problem is that, supposing for a moment that Oregon is found to have violated different rules regarding the 2 players who Lyles mentored during the same recruiting season as Oregon signed them, neither of the players playes last season, again, negating the concept of vacating wins.
Third issue is the mere fact that Cal and LSU are also involved with this. By all accounts, Cal and LSU supposedly "did it right" by getting documentation, etc. IF this is true, then the NCAA would be, in effect, ruling that Lyles service was legitimate. If he had a legitimate service, Oregon's violations are minimal... not obtaining and maintaining proper documentation. If the NCAA rules that Lyles service was not legit for any of the 3 schools, then they are left defining Lyles as a booster for multiple schools... if that is the case, considering one of those schools is an SEC team, I cannot see them taking away 12 scholarship... that is actually insane... especially given what was announced today regarding LSU's OTHER violation which was a clear and willful violation of recruiting rules and extra benefits to a player... 2 TOTAL scholarship reductions... no way Oregon get 12...
Fourth issue, you are using the rules, as they exist now, to condemn the program for what happened over a year ago. The importance of the distinction is that the bylaws regarding recruiting services changed in August 2010. Prior to this the "quarterly written report" was NOT required by the NCAA... So, regarding the written reports, at worst, the Ducks are guilty of not obtaining proper documents after the rule change... and, it may be that they thought the agreement with Lyles was "grandfathered" in so that they did not need to go back in time to produce the records... it COULD be that the "scramble" was nothing more than Oregon getting direction from Bill Clever that they should attempt to obtain some information anyway...
Fifth issue, and this is huge. There are some facts not being reported ANYWHERE which might cast a different light on the subject.
FACT 1: Lache Seastrunk made several unofficial visits to Auburn in Summer 2009
FACT 2: On each of these unofficial visits, there were a few minor recruiting violations that occurred.
FACT 3: Lache Seastrunk was originally committed to Auburn.
FACT 4: The NCAA, in light of a host of minor violations told Auburn to stop recruiting Seastrunk.
FACT 5: Oregon agreed to become Lyles' first client in December 2009
FACT 6: USC was Lache's 2nd choice, until the coach left
FACT 7: Pete Carroll's departure from USC was announced January 11, 2010
FACT 8: Josh Gibson's email to Bill Clever re: Lache's signature was dated January 12th
FACT 9: Lache Seastrunk did not officially commit to Oregon until January 27.
FACT 10: Lache's mom visited LSU with him
FACT 11: She wanted him to go to LSU
FACT 12: lache Seastrunk's mom was in and out of his life as a child, she had her own demons and did not raise him.
You see, Oregon was actually his 3rd choice. Yet, the Ducks had agreed to be Lyles 1st client while Lache was committed elsewhere... and Oregon stayed true to this even when Lache committed to USC (silent commit)... so, to say that the 25K was to get Seastrunk is extremely naive... the problem is that the facts I present do not generate clicks or sales... they are not "headlines" that make people happy, so they get tossed on teh side of the road... sometimes headlines are better than facts...
Why aren't we reading about this information in ESPN or SI? These 'facts' you present if true paint a completely different picture of this whole situation. My personal take on the entire Lyles situation is that the media and everyone else for that matter can speculate until they run out of words, but that's all is is. No one except Chip Kelly and a select few in the admin know what was actually said to the NCAA. I can't help but wonder if the only reason this situation became a situation is because of the influence and rise of Oregon Football?
@mallarduck Those facts had all been reported in various reports, just never put together like this because it deflates the argument against Oregon. That's bad for business.
excellent information!! well stated,,, i also hope the facts are what ultimately matters,, however,, someone else suggested that the ncaa is just a kangaroo court,, thus facts will be secondary to there own agenda,, i hope not,,,, either way i believe unequivocally that kelly and co is running a program that has higher than average recruiting and overall standards, and that he goes overboard actually in terms of trying to apply his own personal ethics to his program and players, in terms of tying one hand behind his back in regards the character and type of kids he tries to get, clearly at the expense of just going after the highest rated player at any given position, and requiring higher than average academic qualifications than most of the big name footbal powers. Of course there is never a guarantee that the kids wont sometimes disappoint, and some have as we have seen, but kelly's record has been to punish bad behavior more severly than big power programs in my estimation. He's bascially norhteastern puritanical from what i can see in his own character,, and its absolutely not in his constitution to cheat let alone cut corners,, otherwise he wouldve recruited 'mega-rated- players' irrespective of background, character, academics or other intangibles, just to win at all costs. No,, he wants to win despite the handicaps self imposed, regardless of the inevitable mistakes that come with the territory in one form or another, and he has won the right way. The fact that he and other programs have had to deal with the ugliness of the realities of recruiting in a state like texas is not his choosing or his fault. The NCAA should address itself to the realities of that texas recruiting ugliness, and other issues like it in recruiting, that is the real issue of the whole situation, and if the NCAA tries to villify one of the truly clean and one of the good guy coaches in kelly, than the NCAA is as much the problem as the unfair ugliness of texas football recruiting.